• reallykindasorta@slrpnk.netEnglish
    5·
    4 hours ago

    Leftists: We should organize together to meet our needs outside of those systems which were never designed to benefit us

    Democrats for some reason: OK but if one of these people was going to poop on you no matter what which one would you pick

  • infinitesunrise@slrpnk.netEnglish
    20·
    18 hours ago

    It’s called millenarianism. Originally in reference to christians like those described who anticipated Christ’s return in 1000 and then 2000 AD. A millenarian outlook is an ultimately narcissistic assumption that one is living at the cusp of the end of history. When really, it’s usually just because we lack the ability to imagine what life will be like beyond the present historical moment.

  • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    16·
    20 hours ago

    That’s why you need to organize now, build dual power and start chipping away at the power of capital and the state. A revolution will not materialize out of the blue, and if it did we’d be royally fucked without some semblance of a plan where we’re going with it. That’s how you get demagogues and tyrants hijacking revolutionary momentum for their own gain.

    The reaction will likely force a revolution (via escalating repression, etc) if they see their monopoly to power threatened, but until then, continue to strengthen your communities, build workers’ councils and protect the vulnerable in society. We can start building utopia I’m the shell of the old world, and be ready when the reaction strikes.

  • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    30·
    1 day ago

    build dual power now!

    live the revolution

    PREFIGURE UTOPIA

    THE NEW IN THE SHELL OF THE OLD

    ORGANIZE

  • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    821·
    1 day ago

    if anything, it’s the opposite. to libs, not voting is seen as a cardinal sin because you don’t agree that waiting for the electoral system to bring about salvation is a normal reaction.

    • LuckingFurker (Any/All)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      37·
      1 day ago

      We can do both, we can vote to try to change things and we can also try to force things when the people we vote for don’t do the things they said they would to get us to vote. I don’t know why so many people act like it has to be one or the other

      • Commiunism@beehaw.orgEnglish
        7·
        22 hours ago

        What you described is pretty much how electorialism works in the real world, both in the past and the present, and thanks to that we live in an absolute utopia.

        But on a more serious note, liberal democracy is just an illusion of freedom and an illusion of “power for the people”. In reality, it’s been meticulously crafted to only benefit the rich with its barriers for entry designed to keep the poor out - for instance, one has to get an expensive education to even get started (or have a load of money to buy a degree outright), having enough money to fund a platform for yourself to get enough supporters to form a party, then do expensive advertising of your party’s message, having funds to combat any kind of political meddling from the competition, connections that one wealthy enough might get are also incredibly helpful, etc. There’s a reason why the vast majority of politicians parents links are blue on wikipedia - it’s not a meritocracy.

        There’s many more critiques like how checks & balances are there to keep the capitalist system and not necessarily to stop abuses as certain populists are demonstrating nowadays, how people are essentially powerless after voting for the next 4-5 years, electorialism being used to distract from class struggle (via reactionary politics, culture wars) which keeps people from turning against the rich properly and instead choosing which side of the rich one wants to support, etc.

        In short, if there’s going to be any meaningful, good change for us workers, it isn’t going to come from electorialism, and its important to be aware of this fact, not grow too complacent.

        At the same time, there’s no revolution to be seen, partly precisely because of the things outlined above so yeah…

      • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        6·
        23 hours ago

        i dont think direct action and self organizing should be a reaction to people voted into power acting against the interests of the people. i see then as the goals in themselves.

        we should not be ruled by anyone, not even people we voted for. the power needs to be with us, the people. representative democracy is taking that power away.

        so i would say, even when politions in power do what the people who elected them want them to do, we should still self organize, to regain our own power and not be relient on the mercy of politions

        • spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          15·
          22 hours ago

          And that unwillingness to engage in silliness is how we fucking got the fascists burning the country down. Good thing people chose to be “serious” instead 🙄

          • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            36·
            21 hours ago

            it has nothing to do with unwillingness. it’s simply part of my survival as a trans abolitionist to refuse voting for trans and Palestinian genocide such as what the Democrats are enacting in collaboration with Republicans

            • spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              17·
              21 hours ago

              So instead you allow worse through tacit support.

              Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve gone through this song and dance before. I believe that electoralism has its place to minimize the harm to society, but plenty of others would rather hide behind their morality instead of supporting a bad candidate in the face of guaranteed worse outcomes.

              as a trans abolitionist to refuse voting for trans and Palestinian genocide

              The trans genocide is explicitly pushed by the people that were voted into power by 1/3 of the country and co-signed by another third who couldn’t be bothered to vote. I voted against it to protect my trans loved ones, and it baffles me that trans people wouldn’t even vote in their own best interests.

              But I’m not going to bother engaging past this, as we both know how this conversation is going to go. Good day.

              • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                38·
                21 hours ago

                enjoy your blue trans genocide bestie! Kamala will give us free HRT in the concentration camps

                • Jack Riddle@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  12·
                  21 hours ago

                  Enjoy your real trans genocide then, I guess.

                  Sure the entire political system is being dismantled and nobody has to vote next time around, but at least you didn’t vote for a genocide that is only getting worse because you didn’t.

            • Soulg@ani.socialEnglish
              6·
              18 hours ago

              Well you contributed to it being worse which makes you morally inferior, but go off I guess

    • lilith267@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      18·
      1 day ago

      Voting is upholding a bad system that makes things worse.

      Not voting is inaction that lets the system make things worse.

      Idk how people can’t understand that there are no “right” answers, nomatter if we personally believe that voting does/doesn’t help we all collectively want better and getting there starts with working together rather then scapegoating

      • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        112·
        1 day ago

        ah yes, both sides-ism. your comment only makes sense if we start from the baseline that electoralism is valid.

        • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          11·
          23 hours ago

          hi, pls dont take my comment as an attack, i just wish to share my opinion with you :3

          i dont think that electoralism has to be seen as valid, to see voting in an electoralist system and pushing for reforms as valid tactics.

          ofc i do not think that reforms and elections will liberate us. i think it is foolish to use voting as our only or even primary tactic. but i think it can improve things or at least slow down our opressors. it can give us more breathing room to do the things that will actually lead to liberation.

          i know that it feels bad to participate in a process and a system that you despice and consider illegitimate, but i dont think there are actual downsides to doing it other than that bad feeling.

          i dont say this to demonize non-voting. i just want to explain why i see voting as a valid tactic and make people reconsider their views or maybe make me reconsider my own view :3

            • riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
              3·
              20 hours ago

              thank you for sharing :3
              i watched the video and i found it very interesting and agreed with it a lot.

              the videos does specifically argue against electoralism tho, and not against the act of voting in itself.

              but i do see how the critique of electoralism applies to my understanding of a reformist arm of a liberatory movement. it makes me reconsider some things. even so, i do disagree with parts of that critique.

              i wonder if the absence of any nominally liberatory parties leads more people to be radicalise and self organize, or if it just shifts the overton window to the right. i understand and agree that the electoral system needs to be deligitimized and people need to be discouraged from putting their trust into it, but does this mean, it should not be used at all?

              • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
                12·
                19 hours ago

                from an anarchist POV, yes we should divest. the only “democracy” (I’m against democracy but that’s for another day) we can hope for is the one we build ourselves on the local level. no representatives, only consensus decisions get passed.