Using Rust since beginning of 2023

Fluffy Hub@programming.dev · edit-2 1 day ago

Using Rust since beginning of 2023

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · 9 hours ago

TOML… nesting

If you’re doing a lot of nesting in your config, you should rethink your config. Config should be pretty flat.

If you’re putting data in TOML, you’re doing it wrong. If your config needs to include data, IMO it should just reference the data in a separate file that uses a proper data format (e.g. JSON).

TOML rocks precisely because it nudges you into making simpler configs. Nesting is inherently hard to read (see endless debates over indentation standards), and TOML sidesteps the whole problem elegantly, forcing you to think about whether you actually need it. In most cases you don’t, and when you do, it’s possible and not unreasonable.

FizzyOrange@programming.dev · 9 hours ago

Config should be pretty flat.

Why? I don’t see any reason for that.

TOML rocks precisely because it nudges you into making simpler configs.

This is just “you’re holding it wrong”.

In most cases you don’t, and when you do, it’s possible and not unreasonable.

Really. Here’s the first Gitlab CI example I could find:

lintDebug:
  interruptible: true
  stage: build
  script:
    - ./gradlew -Pci --console=plain :app:lintDebug -PbuildDir=lint
  artifacts:
    paths:
      - app/lint/reports/lint-results-debug.html
    expose_as: "lint-report"
    when: always

Let’s see the TOML:

[lintDebug]
interruptible = true
stage = "build"
script = [
  "./gradlew -Pci --console=plain :app:lintDebug -PbuildDir=lint"
]

  [lintDebug.artifacts]
  paths = [ "app/lint/reports/lint-results-debug.html" ]
  expose_as = "lint-report"
  when = "always"

Gross. The tool I used to convert even added extra indentation because otherwise it is unclear.

IMO JSON5 is the best:

{
  lintDebug: {
    interruptible: true,
    stage: 'build',
    script: [
      './gradlew -Pci --console=plain :app:lintDebug -PbuildDir=lint',
    ],
    artifacts: {
      paths: [
        'app/lint/reports/lint-results-debug.html',
      ],
      expose_as: 'lint-report',
      when: 'always',
    },
  },
}

This is much clearer than TOML and less ambiguous than YAML. It could do without the outer {}, but overall it’s still better.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works · edit-2 8 hours ago

Gross

The only gross thing I see is your indentation. I find the TOML to be more readable honestly.

In a config format, you want to group top level fields together, and it enforces that. Your example could be like this instead:

lintDebug:
  stage: build
  script:
    - ./gradlew -Pci --console=plain :app:lintDebug -PbuildDir=lint
  artifacts:
    paths:
      - app/lint/reports/lint-results-debug.html
    expose_as: "lint-report"
    when: always
  interruptible: true

It’s easy to tack stuff on like that, and it’s also easy to miss when quickly scanning, especially if you’re using 2-space indenting.

The TOML would be the same in either case, because it forces related fields to be grouped separately from child groups.

The main thing I don’t like about TOML is yellow table groups:

[[thing]] 

[[thing]]

I rarely see it in the wild though.

IMO JSON5 is the best:

It’s trying to do two things at once, and ends up doing neither very well. The extra curly braces are there because it’s trying to be a data format, and it’s bad as a data format because it’s not universal. We’ve standardized on JSON as a community for data, and that’s unlikely to change, so we shouldn’t try to “fix” it just for configs. IMO, either use JSON or a config-specific format.

I agree that YAML is plain awful. It shouldn’t exist.

XML is awful for anything outside of markup, and even then I think we can do better. I’m partial to Lua tables:

    {x=10, y=45, "one", "two", "three"}

A typical HTML drop down menu {pulled from MDN):

<select name="pets" id="pet-select">
  <option value="">--Please choose an option--</option>
  <option value="hamster">Hamster</option>
  <option value="parrot">Parrot</option>
</select>

Could be like this in a Lua table:

{
  node="select", 
  name="pets", 
  id="pet-select", 
  {value="", "--Please choose an option--"}, 
  {value="hamster", "Hamster"}, 
  {value="parrot", "Pattot"}, 
}

Or maybe something a little different with the node type outside:

select{
  name="pets", 
  id="pet-select", 
  option{value="", "--Please choose an option--"}, 
  option{value="hamster", "Hamster"}, 
  option{value="parrot", "Parrot"}, 
}

I think QT Quick uses something like that, but it’s been years since I played with it.