So much to unpack here but I’ll do my best to address everything you’re saying here.
1- Chinese cars can’t compete in price: yes because China has been dumping subsidies into the market, inflating the supply. China dumped 231 billion dollars into EVs from 2009 to 2023. Over 500 electric car brands were created due to this injection. There is only are less than 100 left after China stopped the subsidies.
2- The Chinese EV are a superior product: which one of the 500 car companies are you referring to? outside ofthe top China brands (Geely, BYD), they all sorta suck.
China is doing is state sponsored “dumping”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) which artificially reduces prices to gain market share and has a negative effect on the industry. Every country in the world, not just the US, has an anti dumping policy, including China.
While we the consumer would love to spend pennies on the dollar for an electric cars, the effect is only temporary and when we start losing car companies due to this practice, prices always, ALWAYS, are higher after we lose competition.
Anti dumping policies is not hindering free market. The second you inject 231 billion dollars of government subsidies into an industry, is the second it no longer becomes a free market.
Yes, the USA has also has given subsidies. In total about 30 billion dollars. A drop in the bucket on the 231 billion the CCP has injected.
Would love to know where you’re getting your numbers from for the US and China. I surely hope it’s not just the AI response on top of Google. But that’s what it seems like. You’d literally have to write a whole research paper to get a good comparison because these are heavily consumer based subsidies within each country and China just has a much larger market it sells to heavily inflating the credit because of population. Also, you didn’t list a date range for your 30 Billion number.
You also have to account for state level subsidies and tax credits in the US in addition to Federal programs, grants, loans, etc. Would love to read a paper on this if you have a source.
But, even using your numbers 30 Billion (something I don’t think is accounting for State or EV infrastructure spending; but again, I’d like to see a source) is not a “drop in the bucket”. It’s 13% of what you listed for China over 14 years. Interestingly enough China also outselling the US in terms of market share. Comparing the subsidies of a country that owns the plurality of the market to one that does not is silly. Subsidies are going to increase WITH sales. China is selling significantly more cars. You’d have to compare the subsidies and adjust them based on units sold.
Doing some “Google AI response results” myself China is selling about 8x more EVs than the US (in 2023).
Hmmm. 8x30 = 240 billion. Weird. Again, I’m not taking my numbers seriously but I’m not taking your numbers seriously either because you didn’t sight a source, adjust for units sold, or give a date range for your US numbers.
But you’re just not comparing this correctly. You HAVE to adjust for units sold. Which you are not.
So much to unpack here but I’ll do my best to address everything you’re saying here.
1- Chinese cars can’t compete in price: yes because China has been dumping subsidies into the market, inflating the supply. China dumped 231 billion dollars into EVs from 2009 to 2023. Over 500 electric car brands were created due to this injection. There is only are less than 100 left after China stopped the subsidies.
2- The Chinese EV are a superior product: which one of the 500 car companies are you referring to? outside ofthe top China brands (Geely, BYD), they all sorta suck.
China is doing is state sponsored “dumping”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) which artificially reduces prices to gain market share and has a negative effect on the industry. Every country in the world, not just the US, has an anti dumping policy, including China.
While we the consumer would love to spend pennies on the dollar for an electric cars, the effect is only temporary and when we start losing car companies due to this practice, prices always, ALWAYS, are higher after we lose competition.
Anti dumping policies is not hindering free market. The second you inject 231 billion dollars of government subsidies into an industry, is the second it no longer becomes a free market.
Yes, the USA has also has given subsidies. In total about 30 billion dollars. A drop in the bucket on the 231 billion the CCP has injected.
Would love to know where you’re getting your numbers from for the US and China. I surely hope it’s not just the AI response on top of Google. But that’s what it seems like. You’d literally have to write a whole research paper to get a good comparison because these are heavily consumer based subsidies within each country and China just has a much larger market it sells to heavily inflating the credit because of population. Also, you didn’t list a date range for your 30 Billion number.
You also have to account for state level subsidies and tax credits in the US in addition to Federal programs, grants, loans, etc. Would love to read a paper on this if you have a source.
But, even using your numbers 30 Billion (something I don’t think is accounting for State or EV infrastructure spending; but again, I’d like to see a source) is not a “drop in the bucket”. It’s 13% of what you listed for China over 14 years. Interestingly enough China also outselling the US in terms of market share. Comparing the subsidies of a country that owns the plurality of the market to one that does not is silly. Subsidies are going to increase WITH sales. China is selling significantly more cars. You’d have to compare the subsidies and adjust them based on units sold.
Doing some “Google AI response results” myself China is selling about 8x more EVs than the US (in 2023).
Hmmm. 8x30 = 240 billion. Weird. Again, I’m not taking my numbers seriously but I’m not taking your numbers seriously either because you didn’t sight a source, adjust for units sold, or give a date range for your US numbers.
But you’re just not comparing this correctly. You HAVE to adjust for units sold. Which you are not.